There is an interesting dialogue concerning the heterodox of the Friends or Quakers that is worth repeating here. Indeed, it informs of a different story from the revisionist message we often hear in historical dialogue these days, and worth gleaning and comparing to the Word of God. Take what you will, and understand that we are saved because of His love and mercy and grace and that not of ourselves. Salvation is a gift of God, and in fulfilling His salvation to all the world, He did not send another to redeem us, but rather, prepared for Himself a body so that we might be saved. Herein, the dialogue:
Historically, the heads of religion, as the so called self-appointed church fathers, have set down certain platforms concerning the Godhead, advancing a cunningly devised fable that God is three distinct and separate person and yet remains as one God. This I say to you and to the whole world. We do not hold to that belief neither do we embrace such unscriptural platforms. The reason? Beyond scriptural evidence, no man has ever before held this account to be accurate. God has revealed by His Spirit that which is written and confirmed by the testimony of the scriptures being God’s Word!
The Trinitarian (Norton) launches an attack against the Friends, to which Howgill the Friend responds. First, concerning the trinity - the Trinitarian says that we the Friends confess the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, and yet you deny the trinity, that they be three distinct persons. To confute this you bring forth Hebrews chapter 1 verse 3 - "He being the express image of His Father’s person."
Howgill replies. "Your trinity is an old popish term and we love to keep to sound words. For by the trinity, I suppose you mean three. Your own words shall confute you. You confess that we say there is a Father, Son and Spirit, and yet but one God, or one eternal being or substance, but your word distinct is your own word and not the Spirit’s, yet to distinguish between Father, Son and Spirit we do not deny.
As for Hebrews chapter one, it is rendered in another translation the express image of His substance, for person is to gross a word, to express an eternal and divine being. And if you do uphold that God is three distinct substances you err in your judgment, for that would make three Gods."
Norton attacks the Friends concerning Christ. Norton states that the Friends deny Christ to be God and man in one person, and Christ to be a distinct person from the Father. They acknowledge such a Christ as un-Christ Christ, and when they say Christ manifest in the flesh, they mean not as the scripture, but fallaciously.
Howgill replies. We say according to the scripture of truth and not according to your fallacy. We say that in the man Christ did the fullness of the Godhead dwell, and that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. Christ said Himself "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30) The Father, the Son and the Spirit subsist in one eternal power. Life and Glory, which you and all your stupid generation are ignorant of, and Christ that we acknowledge is such a Christ as is able to save to the utmost them that come to Him, and receive Him and believe in Him.
When we say Christ manifest in the flesh we say that "holy thing" which was brought forth and born of a virgin, and conceived of the Holy Ghost in whom all the fullness of the Godhead dwells.(Colossians 2:9; I Timothy 3:16; Isaiah 9:6) In whom the eternal power of the Father was manifested. That He was the Christ which was manifested in the flesh and justified in the Spirit, preached among the Gentiles, seen of angels, and received up into glory. (I Timothy 3:16) This is according to the scriptures of truth, and your judgment on this must be judged. As such, truth must never bow to error.
Let the Word of God be acknowledged once and for all. Stand in the offering plate.
Historically, the heads of religion, as the so called self-appointed church fathers, have set down certain platforms concerning the Godhead, advancing a cunningly devised fable that God is three distinct and separate person and yet remains as one God. This I say to you and to the whole world. We do not hold to that belief neither do we embrace such unscriptural platforms. The reason? Beyond scriptural evidence, no man has ever before held this account to be accurate. God has revealed by His Spirit that which is written and confirmed by the testimony of the scriptures being God’s Word!
The Trinitarian (Norton) launches an attack against the Friends, to which Howgill the Friend responds. First, concerning the trinity - the Trinitarian says that we the Friends confess the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, and yet you deny the trinity, that they be three distinct persons. To confute this you bring forth Hebrews chapter 1 verse 3 - "He being the express image of His Father’s person."
Howgill replies. "Your trinity is an old popish term and we love to keep to sound words. For by the trinity, I suppose you mean three. Your own words shall confute you. You confess that we say there is a Father, Son and Spirit, and yet but one God, or one eternal being or substance, but your word distinct is your own word and not the Spirit’s, yet to distinguish between Father, Son and Spirit we do not deny.
As for Hebrews chapter one, it is rendered in another translation the express image of His substance, for person is to gross a word, to express an eternal and divine being. And if you do uphold that God is three distinct substances you err in your judgment, for that would make three Gods."
Norton attacks the Friends concerning Christ. Norton states that the Friends deny Christ to be God and man in one person, and Christ to be a distinct person from the Father. They acknowledge such a Christ as un-Christ Christ, and when they say Christ manifest in the flesh, they mean not as the scripture, but fallaciously.
Howgill replies. We say according to the scripture of truth and not according to your fallacy. We say that in the man Christ did the fullness of the Godhead dwell, and that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. Christ said Himself "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30) The Father, the Son and the Spirit subsist in one eternal power. Life and Glory, which you and all your stupid generation are ignorant of, and Christ that we acknowledge is such a Christ as is able to save to the utmost them that come to Him, and receive Him and believe in Him.
When we say Christ manifest in the flesh we say that "holy thing" which was brought forth and born of a virgin, and conceived of the Holy Ghost in whom all the fullness of the Godhead dwells.(Colossians 2:9; I Timothy 3:16; Isaiah 9:6) In whom the eternal power of the Father was manifested. That He was the Christ which was manifested in the flesh and justified in the Spirit, preached among the Gentiles, seen of angels, and received up into glory. (I Timothy 3:16) This is according to the scriptures of truth, and your judgment on this must be judged. As such, truth must never bow to error.
Let the Word of God be acknowledged once and for all. Stand in the offering plate.
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